As the Economy Worsens, A New America Is Emerging, Part 1


During the last year or two, I have watched America’s “Corapacy” take out their losses out on the public rather than using tried and true methods that enhance profitability that have a propensity to stabilize the economy in general; Greed, a message that tells America that we “don’t count” is now the standard rather than an aberration. Even if the economy is on the uptake, which I doubt, the unintended consequences of this assault on our economy are far from over. If you believe the economy is recovering, think again – it’s only getting worse and the aftermath of this assault on America is another notch on the belt of America’s ongoing class war.

April was a surprise, and Foreclosures in April exceeded even March’s blistering pace with a record 342,000 homes receiving notices of default, auction notices or undergoing bank repossessions, according to a regular industry report. In another shock to those who believed the market was recovering, Total store sales register a surprise decline. Sales excluding auto purchases also fall. Thousands upon thousands of Americans are still losing their jobs, and as they do, the widening class gap in the United States grows every day.

The “unintended consequences” I’m speaking of is the credit ratings of people who have lost almost everything while they watched their lifetime jobs being sent off to China, India, and anywhere else that would add to the Corapacy’s bottom-line. The consumer only counts in commercials – and now millions of us that once had good credit couldn’t buy anything except through “special finance” programs where the lender charges exorbitant interest rates. Those of them that have maintained their good credit throughout their lives are now falling into the chasm of poverty – where payments are so high based on their credit rating they can only afford the purchase of sub-standard goods which often cost more to maintain than a new item. This is particularly dominant in the automobile business, a necessity to the bulk of people that work in today’s society. Pay as you go lots and Title Pawn Companies are flourishing, and in the process, are cutting deeply into the income of those who can least afford it.

Second-class America is growing at an alarming rate, and will continue to do so until Washington makes a cohesive decision to quit outsourcing valuable jobs in our own country and send Americans into poverty for the good of the Corapacy – not the people. As we watch the foreclosure cycle taking its toll, ask yourself who can qualify to buy a home that has one or two minimum wage jobs, and to make it worse, their credit rating is in tatters? Crawling out of the “bad credit hole” is lengthy and expensive, so even if the economy rebounds tomorrow, the Carpetbaggers will be out in full force, making absurd amounts of money from people that only two or three years ago had excellent credit scores. Many of the foreclosures were caused by people without the resources to purchase property whom were wooed by lower payments and inadequacies in federal safeguards – and whether these variable-rate mortgages were fully disclosed is a matter of speculation, although under the law, complete disclosure is mandated. Others who have had a lifetime history of working and good credit have watched their jobs disappear, through no fault of their own and now find themselves destitute – hoping they can at least keep their families fed and clothed.

As we and others predicted months ago, the second wave of losses is about to hit America’s banking and financial system. Credit Card defaults are at record highs:

Advanta says will stop lending, shares sink

Tue May 12, 2009 8:22pm BST

* Advanta will stop lending next month

* Company has lost access to main funding source

* Shares fall 27 percent in afternoon trading

NEW YORK, May 12 (Reuters) – Advanta Corp, (ADVNB.O: Quote, Profile, Research) a company that issues credit cards to small businesses, is not making new loans after defaults surged and it lost access to its main source of funding, and its shares fell 27 percent.

The company said in a release late Monday that it will shut down about 1 million credit card accounts on June 10, when it expects to lose access to the securitization trust it uses to sell credit card loans to investors.

The suburban Philadelphia-based company will also use up to $1.4 billion to buy back debt issued by its main securitization trust, at 65 cents to 75 cents on the dollar.

Advanta will also make a cash offer for $100 million in trust preferred securities at 20 cents on the dollar.

U.S. credit card defaults rose in March to new record highs, as more Americans lost their jobs amid the worst recession since World War Two.
(Emphasis added.) MORE

The real problem with Advanta canceling their lending is that they primarily loan to small businesses, many of who have found their credit sources disappearing as fast as their bottom-lines… Even though it was OUR money that supported “corporations that were too big to fail,” several of the recipients of TARP Funds are still refusing to fund America’s small businesses as they hoard their money to make new acquisitions. Advanta states they will be closing approximately “1 million credit card accounts on June 10.” In simple terms, a million small businesses will be scrambling to procure new sources of credit – and since they aren’t “too big to fall,” many of America’s small businesses are likely to be swept away – opening up our markets to even more goods that have been off-shored and further raising the nation’s unemployment figures. (It’s extremely important to note that many of these small businesses aren’t really that small; some employ hundreds, and in some cases, thousands. Strangling America’s small businesses is good news for the Corapacy and bad news for Americans.

If you read today’s news, the “Government says 637,000 people filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week. Continuing claims at all-time high for 15th week in a row.” Add that to the news that Chrysler plans to close 789 dealerships – with General Motors stating “it wants to cut 42% of its dealership base to 3,600 by next year. Fritz Henderson, the GM chief executive, said on Monday that it would soon start notifying dealers as soon as this week.”

As President Obama strives to develop a cohesive program of sustainable energy, the nation’s poor and disadvantaged are putting-off important matters such as regular maintenance on their cars, adding to the pollution we seek to curb – not to mention driving vehicles that also need brake and tire upgrades for the safety of the general public. The closing of so many GM and Chrysler Dealerships will have a devastating impact on the economy, and as the “trickle-down” effect takes place and their vendors and parts suppliers face a huge loss of their base – the true consequences of so many dealership closings will become apparent. To add insult to injury, General Motors is planning on building cars in China and selling them in the United States - waving the white flag of surrender as China gobbles-up most of our manufacturing capability. Rather than figuring out how to make quality, affordable products that generate American jobs in America, G.M. has all but admitted they cannot compete with the Chinese and our government is so indebted to China that we either dance to their music or face bankruptcy.

The nation’s banking and finance community, held together by taxpayer money, are raising rates on credit cards, increasing fees, and generally taking whatever profit they can – even from those who have managed to keep their credit good. Nobody, except the wealthy, are immune to the greed of America’s Bankers. The Bill which went before Congress to cap interest rates on credit cards was a sham of such proportions that all of us should remember who voted to protect the consumer and who voted for the Corapacy – which was the bulk of Congress! There are other measures Obama states Congress is going to enact to protect the American consumer – but even if all goes well, what about the destruction of so many millions of good credit ratings that came about through corporate greed – not the mismanagement of the individual?

Everyday there is another piece of bad news, and today CNN ran this article:

GM’s 1,100 ‘Dear John’ letters to dealers

By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer

Automaker makes big cut as part of plan to drop 40% of dealer network. Many are expected to leave business this year.”

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — General Motors notified 1,100 of its 6,000 dealerships Friday that it is terminating their contracts with the struggling automaker, the first step in cutting up to 40% of its retail network.

GM spokeswoman Susan Garontakos said that the dealers receiving notice Friday are being told that their contracts will not be renewed in October 2010. Many of them are expected to close shop this year.

The company has told the Obama administration that it plans to cut its network down to 3,600 dealers by next year, although Friday GM vice president Mark LaNeve said the final number would be in the range of 3,600 to 4,000. MUCH MORE

We face the power and strength of America’s corporations, bent on their bottom-line with no sympathy for the American consumer. We can compete with China, and we can make products that last – it just takes good old American ingenuity – something that has always been our saving grace. As we watch the GOP hammer President Obama for his “socialist” agenda, we as a people need to take a second glance at President Obama and understand what he is doing. Slowly but surely, the wheels of progress are being implemented; the Obama administration has reinvigorated our anti-trust laws, is working to replace Bush Appointees that have “dug in” as Attorney Generals and other high profile positions that shape our nation, and finally, that appears to be ending. LINK

My impression of the Obama administration is that he is making changes “under the radar” – and those changes have the potential to change the direction of the United States. In Obama’s defense, I wouldn’t release the photos that vividly demonstrate torture – because as the GOP has pointed out, and they are correct; releasing those photos are a guarantee of Al Quada and the Taliban posting them throughout their network of websites which will make recruitment much easier for those who seek to harm the United States. President’s often make unpopular decisions, however in this matter, the damage to our public image and the blow back we would encounter makes Obama’s decision one of attempting to save lives, not release unnecessary photos that are guaranteed to stir-up Radical Islam.

Many people seem to believe that President Obama is “Bush-lite;” I disagree. The Obama administration is carefully attempting to “make change we can believe in” – but to be successful, politics is a give and take endeavor, and from where I stand, the President is slipping in his agenda little by little, and so carefully that most people fail to realize that in the next two or three years, if Obama “stays the course,” the United Sates may reemerge as the premier Democracy in the world.

We do have one major hurdle to overcome, and that’s the destruction of millions of Americans that have lost their good credit ratings. It’s time for the government to step-in and offer loans to those that lost their credit ratings due to the greed and malfeasance of Wall Street – and until that discrepancy is fixed, the only winners we will see are the carpetbaggers that are descending on America’ most disadvantaged individuals.

It’s also important to note Obama’s likely pick for the Supreme Court. One “pick” that is on Obama’s short-list embodies what most Americans hold dear – adherence to precedent and the United States Constitution. Diane Wood has been serving on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. Ms. Woods has been a champion of the constitution and precedent, IMO, much like Ron Paul, who has never voted against our constitution. Below are excerpts from an article describing her talents and strategy for making decisions – and it’s a formula we don’t see as often as we should:

Possible Court Pick Is Used to Dueling on Bench

Wood, a Contender to Replace Souter, Often Spars With Conservative Colleagues on the 7th Circuit

By Peter Slevin, Washington Post Staff Writer

Wood’s 14 years alongside Posner and Easterbrook, who often serve together as a panel of the circuit court, are being studied afresh as President Obama prepares to make his first nomination to the Supreme Court. Wood, described by associates as smart, progressive, steadfast and collegial, is a onetime colleague of Obama’s at the University of Chicago and is considered by many to be on the shortlist of potential replacements for retiring Justice David H. Souter.

Wood knows what it is like to duel two of the most formidable and prolific conservative jurists in the country, a key element of Obama’s search as he tries to shift the dynamic of a court led by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Antonin Scalia.

“She’s as bright as Posner and Easterbrook and really holds her own, and I think she would hold her own with the great intellects on the high court as well,” said Chicago lawyer Fay Clayton, who has argued many 7th Circuit cases. “Everything she does is based on precedent and statutory construction and the facts.” (Emphasis added.) MUCH MORE

It’s easy to bash any sitting President, as decisions are often made based on classified information the general population is not privy to; while it appears that Obama is following in Bush’s footsteps on several fronts, the intense efforts to make other changes that will ultimately lead us back to what our Constitution and Bill of Rights embodies are being made – and to be successful while combating GOP obstructionism will either make or break the Obama administration, and so far, the GOP doesn’t seem to comprehend that Obama is looking forward on issues that have been rendered moot by the Bush administration. If we can get President Obama to offer some real help to those that need it most – and that doesn’t include banks, our prospects for a real financial recovery may be better than ever.

William Cormier

UPDATE:

U.S. uptick doesn’t mean crisis is over, says top economist

By Agence France-Presse

Published: May 16, 2009, Updated 7 hours ago

FLORIANOPOLIS, Brazil – A few recent glimmers of economic hope emerging in the United States do not mean the global crisis is over, a top economist who advises US President Barack Obama said Saturday.

The crisis “is certainly the worst that I have seen in my career,” Martin Feldstein, a 69-year-old Harvard economist and member of Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board told a world tourism conference in Brazil.

“The evidence simply doesn’t support” the conclusion that the United States is on its way to a sustained recovery, said the academic, who also served as an advisor under former presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

He added that Europe’s economy is “equally bad if not worse than in the US,” and “Japan has been hit even harder.” MUCH MORE


Below is a comment I made which is too large for the commenting section:

For the past fifteen (15) years I have been living in “Red States”, Kansas, Florida, and Georgia – and during those years I have begun to form certain opinions. In Kansas, my live-in girlfriend was a devout Republican as was her entire family. She was brilliant, maintained a 3.87 GPA without breaking a sweat and was majoring in teaching at ESU in Emporia, Kansas – the 4th highest rated teachers college in the United States with an extremely demanding curriculum. I survived by not talking politics, and I listened and learned.

The backlash began in Emporia, where being a Republican was a matter of family pride – and speaking out against President Bush often carried instant repercussions. This was five or six years ago, and I began writing at the urging of my friend. She had wanted to be a teacher all of her life, loved children, and was by far one of the smartest women I have ever known. I became a regular on the campus of ESU and had the privilege of interviewing several of its Professors – who humbled me with their knowledge and education. They were also, almost to the very man (or woman) devout Republicans. Maybe I should say that they “were” devout Republicans; almost as a group, the staff at ESU believed that “No Child Left Behind” was an albatross and complained that educators, not politicians, should set the standards for our educational system. During one interview I brought up the fact that Laura Bush was an educator, and it almost ended the interview; the professor was shaking with anger wondering how in the hell a President who embarrassed the country almost every time he spoke and his “librarian” wife had the audacity to believe that they could somehow cure our ailing educational system. Now, five to six years later, our high school drop-out rate is soaring and students are now gloomy about their future. Sadly, my friend was one of those who changed her major.

The bulk of the American public fails to understand what a disaster “No Child Left Behind” is and was. The Professors at ESU were furious, and people that had dreamed of becoming teachers were changing their majors from teaching to business – and the dumbing-down of America began in full force. I learned that those who seek teacher degrees are hardly interested in the wages, as we don’t pay our teachers that well, but most majored in teaching because of their love for children and a belief that they could help to build a better America.

I wrote the above to make a point. The “electorate”, all of us who participate in political activities, including voting, are simply people with whom most of us interact on a daily basis. I have no hate or even a dislike for Republicans – however, I do despise their leadership – and I don’t care for the Democratic leadership either! Nancy Pelosi should be replaced and any Congressman, Democrat or Republican, who votes against our constitutional safeguards should immediately be impeached. Congressmen pledge to uphold the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the rule of law – as does our President.

The problem that we face as Democrats and Independents is one of information, and until we solve the endless propaganda and hate that Murdoch, Faux News, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter, just to name a few, spew to constantly enrage their base, there will be no real public participation in what Republicans perceive as an affront to their values.

What I learned is that if the average Republican is exposed to the facts from a source they trust, not the garbage and propaganda spewed by Fox News – they become as enraged, if not more so than the average Joe, for being duped into voting for Bush/Cheney. As we hemorrhage jobs, they aren’t just Democratic or Independent jobs, they are representative of the entire nation – and Republicans are on the losing end too. The propaganda arm of the GOP is attempting to lay this economy at the feet of President Obama, which took the Bush administration eight years to accomplish – yet almost instant results are being demanded of a President that has barely been in office 100 days.

And yes, I’m as critical of President Obama as I would a Republican President, however, I do believe that he is exercising an agenda that won’t fully revel itself for at least a full year. As I stated earlier, I am 100% against using taxpayer dollars to help banks and financial institutions that got in trouble through greed and some actions that were downright fraudulent.

Yes Harry Jones, we do need the “God of Profit” to survive, but outsourcing our manufacturing sector is a guarantee that we will never revitalize our economy, that wages will continue to drop, and worst of all, the United States will be in a position where it will be impossible to collect enough taxes to stay out of bankruptcy. Who is going to inhabit the homes of the recently decimated Middle-Class? What will happen to all of those homes? Is ANYONE asking those questions?

Anyone that has any concept of economics has to know that our current business model (That of the Corapacy.) is designed to enrich corporations while wrecking havoc upon our own economy. Refusing to fund our small businesses opens-up more segments in our markets for outsourced products, which equates to higher unemployment and more jobs being sent overseas. Americans, all of us, Democrats, Independents, and Republicans must demand that we reinvigorate our manufacturing sector, demand that corporations pay their fair share of taxes, and understand that “Protectionism” may be necessary for our survival. Read: Free Trade Is A Misnomer; So-Called Protectionism Is A Matter of Self Survival

Unfortunately, as desperately as this message needs to get out to the general public, as long as Rupert Murdoch and Fox News survive – there is almost no chance that millions of Republicans who have been misinformed will wake-up and understand that the very essence of our nation is being transferred to China. We, as a people, have forgotten what made our nation a financial powerhouse; I watched and wrote with almost a macabre fascination as Wal-Mart led the charge to outsource American jobs, trained China’s businesses in “The Wal-Mart Way” and then the rest of corporate America followed, some of them so they could compete with Wal-Mart. I do know that when Republicans do find the truth, as I witnessed in Emporia – they are as angry as the rest of us, and as demonstrated by this recent election – they demanded change.

Many of you are too young to remember that when Sam Walton established Wal-Mart, it was the death knell for many small businesses, but all in all, Wal-Mart helped our economy. One highly patriotic individual, Sam Walton, made his money through smart business tactics and pushing, at every store and every commercial to buy American! Sam Walton’s demand that his store carry American made goods was not government mandated, but the vision of a true patriot. Patriotism is in the heart of an individual(s), not a corporation. Americans should demand American made products and it needs to begin on a grass-roots level. If General Motors has taken federal bailout money, then they should figure out how to make quality cars in America, not enrich China with their greed – and “we the people” need to make our voices heard and demand that General Motors cannot spend one red nickel of that money in China.

If you don’t believe this is a class-war, then I suggest you find another source for your news. If you believe the United States can exist as a “service based economy” without our overall standard of living reaching Third World status, I suggest you walk into any college and consult an economics professor. Resources are finite, and as we embrace wind and solar power to quell our thirst for foreign oil, we also need to manufacture and grow our own crops. We’re losing our small businesses and farmers by the droves – and the farms are being bought-up by corporations as they take solid aim at controlling food prices, another disaster facing the American public.

We all stand at the crux of American influence and power, and while I don’t advocate war, there are others that do, and having “power” is what has protected our Democratic Republic all of these years. But, to hold true power, we must also be self-sufficient and care enough about our fellow citizen to urge Congress and the President to bring our manufacturing home, forget the disaster of using grains to manufacture bio-fuels, and above all, make it known that we’re tired of enriching China and that “we the people” prefer to buy American.

One thing is certain; the economy IS NOT getting better, and until Washington and the people wake-up and understand that corporations and their lobbyists have wrecked more havoc on the U.S. than the Taliban and Al Qaeda combined, our downward spiral will continue until all we have is massive debt to China – and they will eventually collect. Furthermore, picture our situation if we ever get into an international row with China; imagine all exports cut-off, no spare parts for vital infrastructure repairs and projects – and now that Wal-Mart and other greedy corporations purchase the bulk of their goods from China, how would they re-stock their stores?

When I wrote the original article that began the “Wal-Mart” series, I predicted that our economy would eventually fail and I also brought-up National Security as an issue; China has increased their military budget, they have intercontinental nuclear weapons, and now they are busy building a “Blue Water Fleet” to expand their influence on a global basis. Our military has suffered massive cyber-attacks that have been traced back to China (which they deny), and they refuse to exert their power and influence over North Korea – who only exist by and through the grace of the Chinese. Beijing has the ability to demand that North Korea quit their nuclear ambitions by simply stating they will no longer provide food and fuel – but they won’t, as a nuclear armed North Korea somehow fits in with their overall global strategy.

From an economic standpoint, China now holds most of the cards. We can allow corporate America to increase our dependence on China, or we can demand that Americans start buying American again – and I promise you, the road to recovery will be rough – but its ingrained within our hearts to embrace freedom – and our support of China will eventually work to undermine what’s left of our economy as well as our freedom. Every economist worth his or her salt agrees that we cannot exist as a service-based economy. That said, why hasn’t the Obama administration taken steps to reinvent our manufacturing sector? Granted, our old business model didn’t work, but enough years have passed that we now know why and how we failed – and with that knowledge comes the power to make changes that will guarantee that American businesses can survive and stay successful without outsourcing our future to other nations.

I’ll finish off this comment with a question; who is responsible for the sad state of our economy? Is it Bush and Cheney, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama? If you haven’t figured it out yet, the answer is “none of the above.” Bush and Cheney saddled us with two wars that desperately hurt our economy and refused to carry-out oversight of the financial community, but in the final analysis – it was Corporate America that stands responsible for the destruction of our economy, and in my opinion, they should be prosecuted and imprisoned for their actions rather than receiving taxpayer funds while we watch everything that we hold dear fade into obscurity and disarray – including our ability to adequately feed, clothe, and house our families.

NOTE: Another reason I related the story about ESU is because there is a distinct difference between Republicans and Neo-conservatives. It saddens me when comments are made that disparage the entire Republican Party when it is the Neo-cons who are setting their agenda – mostly behind the scenes. In all honesty, to take back America from our greedy corporations, we need the participation of everyone, and that includes Republicans. I have a great deal of faith in the American people, and while our opinions on abortion and other issues often set us apart – the issue of our economy and the need to reinvigorate our manufacturing sector is tantamount to saving our nation from financial destruction.

President Obama, as you ponder the “State of the Union” – please explain to us how we can survive as a service-based economy. You know the answer as well as I do, but unlike me, you’re in the position to influence the general population and bring about change. Be honest with the people and identify who is actually responsible for the state of our economy – and outline what needs to be done to rectify the situation. Corporations are not entities whom are able to make decisions without the support of their shareholders. Tell the people the truth, that Corporate America has shunned the people for profit and unless they change their ways, the United States is bound to fall into Third World status. If you tell us the truth, something that has been absent from the Presidency for far too long, it will not be necessary to legislate that American corporations bring back our manufacturing capability; that message will be delivered at shareholder meetings throughout the country – and when the average shareholder and citizen understands that corporate greed and malfeasance are the real culprits in our financial meltdown, “Change we can believe in” will happen.

President Obama, please take a stand for the American people. We know that you have received enormous campaign contributions from the banking and financial sectors who only ask that they “conduct business as usual” – which means raping the American people! You stated that we had to “make sacrifices” in order to get our economy back on its feet, which most of us are willing to do, but I’ll be damned if I will sacrifice one red nickel while Corporate America is allowed to rape and pillage the American people.

Mr. President, because of Fox News and monopolies such as Newscorp, the Republican sector of our population doesn’t have a clue as to “why” and “how” we reached this sad state of affairs. Yes, I’m speaking of Republicans, not Neo-conservatives who hope you fail regardless of the pain and suffering that are bound to follow. There has not been an orator in the White House since the days of J.F.K. that has the ability to make himself understood and whom the bulk of the population trusts, and with that ability comes a huge amount of responsibility. I’m calling on you to exercise that responsibility, to side with the American people rather than Corporate America and address the country and explain why it’s not only necessary, but also a matter of National Security for the United States to return to its roots where people could trust our employers to make the right decisions, not just for their bottom-line, but for the good of the nation as a whole.

If you side with the people and tell us the truth, the whole truth, there will be a groundswell of support and outrage at our modern “Carpetbaggers” – and they will be forced to change their ways or fade into bankruptcy and obscurity. If you fail us President Obama, we will know that your real loyalty lies with those who seek our destruction, not necessarily on purpose, but are blinded by greed in their everyday decision making. If our corporations are making these decisions knowing full well they are destroying our economy in the process, then I believe they are committing acts of financial treason that have damaged the United States far worse than the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the Bush administration combined.

I’m 58 years old, and not since the days of JFK has the United States faced a situation where our security and ability to survive as a nation has been at such risk. We also know that the stimulus as it pertains to our infrastructure was necessary, however, those are only jobs that will last for a specific time period – and when the work is completed, their jobs will disappear far quicker than they appeared. We don’t need a short-term solution, but a solution that will allow Americans to rebuild their nation on a platform that will offer jobs a hundred years from now. And yes President Obama, I do understand the risk; the last President that attempted to stand-up for the American people was assassinated – which I fear may enter into your decision making as you ponder our situation and “how” to bring forth change that will benefit the entire country. There has also never been a time when so much counted on the ethics of one individual, or where the actions of a President can either drive us over the edge and end Democracy as we know it, or face the problem head-on and relate to the people what needs to be done to save our nation from what appears to be the inevitable financial destruction of our entire economy.

President Obama, I don’t envy you or your position; you are faced with the possibility of endangering your own life if you stand against the “Corapacy” and save the nation, or in the alternative, will go down in history known as the one man that could have saved America, but instead opted to protect his own interests and will forever be known as a President that didn’t have the courage to tell his constituents the truth – which would instantly cause the American people to demand the change that could and would make Corporate America act in a responsible manner – whether they like it or not!

William Cormier



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  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Mitch;

    Thanks a lot! I knew the comment was too long, however, with the message I was attempting to convey I felt it necessary to lay a foundation for the important part of the comment. I'm tired of looking upon fellow Americans with anger because of the political party they belong to – and I have also been guilty of making comments like "Rethuglicans" and other inappropriate material – which does nothing but demean people who often don't deserve it.

    I'll also admit that I am dismayed with President Obama for not doing anything worthwhile to help bring American jobs back home, and even worse than that, Congress nor the President has leveled a critique or even an explanation in regard why the government is allowing Corporate America to destroy our economy.

    BTW, for the rest of the readership, the comment appears at the end of the main article because of its length. What it boiled down to is that our "Corapacy" has damaged the American economy far worse than the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the Bush administration combined. America's primary enemy is the Corapacy – not all of the people and entities that have been blamed for the destruction of our economy why we fail to mention the real culprits, criminals, or whatever else you care to call them. If you comment on this entry, please take the time to read the original comment at the end of the story.

    Best Regards,

    William Cormier

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Mitch;

    Thanks a lot! I knew the comment was too long, however, with the message I was attempting to convey I felt it necessary to lay a foundation for the important part of the comment. I'm tired of looking upon fellow Americans with anger because of the political party they belong to – and I have also been guilty of making comments like "Rethuglicans" and other inappropriate material – which does nothing but demean people who often don't deserve it.

    I'll also admit that I am dismayed with President Obama for not doing anything worthwhile to help bring American jobs back home, and even worse than that, Congress nor the President has leveled a critique or even an explanation in regard why the government is allowing Corporate America to destroy our economy.

    BTW, for the rest of the readership, the comment appears at the end of the main article because of its length. What it boiled down to is that our "Corapacy" has damaged the American economy far worse than the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the Bush administration combined. America's primary enemy is the Corapacy – not all of the people and entities that have been blamed for the destruction of our economy why we fail to mention the real culprits, criminals, or whatever else you care to call them. If you comment on this entry, please take the time to read the original comment at the end of the story.

    Best Regards,

    William Cormier

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    Well said Bill…I appreciate the comments you have added. It is from the heart and well spoken. A great call to stay on purpose…thanks. There are good people of both party's…and we need to call them forth. I think an earlier article I have posted here is a good fit; An Agenda for Real Change: <a href=”http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=597” target=”_blank”>http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=597

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    Well said Bill…I appreciate the comments you have added. It is from the heart and well spoken. A great call to stay on purpose…thanks. There are good people of both party's…and we need to call them forth. I think an earlier article I have posted here is a good fit; An Agenda for Real Change: <a href=”http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=597” target=”_blank”>http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=597

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    In the National Review article you provided Murdock states in his opening paragraph that it was waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) 183 times in March 2003 that “PREVENTED a bloody attack” on the Library Tower in LA “that could have murdered thousands.”
    Bush stated in a commencement speech to the US Coast Guard in May 2007:
    “…in 2002 was a plot by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad to repeat the destruction of 9/11 by sending operatives to hijack an airplane and fly into the tallest building on the West Coast.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    A Bush White House Fact sheet released at the same time states:
    “In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    It looks like information gleaned from KSM from waterboarding in 2003 ONLY confirmed a plot the government already uncovered and broke up in 2002 but it did NOT PREVENT if from happening.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    In the National Review article you provided Murdock states in his opening paragraph that it was waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) 183 times in March 2003 that “PREVENTED a bloody attack” on the Library Tower in LA “that could have murdered thousands.”
    Bush stated in a commencement speech to the US Coast Guard in May 2007:
    “…in 2002 was a plot by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad to repeat the destruction of 9/11 by sending operatives to hijack an airplane and fly into the tallest building on the West Coast.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    A Bush White House Fact sheet released at the same time states:
    “In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    It looks like information gleaned from KSM from waterboarding in 2003 ONLY confirmed a plot the government already uncovered and broke up in 2002 but it did NOT PREVENT if from happening.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    In the National Review article you provided Murdock states in his opening paragraph that it was waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) 183 times in March 2003 that “PREVENTED a bloody attack” on the Library Tower in LA “that could have murdered thousands.”
    Bush stated in a commencement speech to the US Coast Guard in May 2007:
    “…in 2002 was a plot by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad to repeat the destruction of 9/11 by sending operatives to hijack an airplane and fly into the tallest building on the West Coast.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    A Bush White House Fact sheet released at the same time states:
    “In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    It looks like information gleaned from KSM from waterboarding in 2003 ONLY confirmed a plot the government already uncovered and broke up in 2002 but it did NOT PREVENT if from happening.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    In the National Review article you provided Murdock states in his opening paragraph that it was waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) 183 times in March 2003 that “PREVENTED a bloody attack” on the Library Tower in LA “that could have murdered thousands.”
    Bush stated in a commencement speech to the US Coast Guard in May 2007:
    “…in 2002 was a plot by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad to repeat the destruction of 9/11 by sending operatives to hijack an airplane and fly into the tallest building on the West Coast.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    A Bush White House Fact sheet released at the same time states:
    “In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.”
    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/r
    It looks like information gleaned from KSM from waterboarding in 2003 ONLY confirmed a plot the government already uncovered and broke up in 2002 but it did NOT PREVENT if from happening.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    After reading several of the above comments, I made one myself, but it was too large to fit in the comment section. The comment, which address several issues including bashing Republicans can be found at the end of the above article. (No, I'm not making excuses for Republicans – just pointing out some interesting information.)

    BTW, we know that the GOP has professional "trolls" in their employ that attempt to disrupt any logical discussion or comment – especially as it relates to the Bush administration or torture. Why bother with them??? I believe it's much better to ignore them, much like they did the country's finances while they were in power. Our Military, as with almost all of our Congress that has served in the Armed Forces are against torture – and that includes several prominent Republicans. They know that if we ever get into a conventional war, our use of torture will fall on the backs of those who may be captured and/or shot down during combat.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    After reading several of the above comments, I made one myself, but it was too large to fit in the comment section. The comment, which address several issues including bashing Republicans can be found at the end of the above article. (No, I'm not making excuses for Republicans – just pointing out some interesting information.)

    BTW, we know that the GOP has professional "trolls" in their employ that attempt to disrupt any logical discussion or comment – especially as it relates to the Bush administration or torture. Why bother with them??? I believe it's much better to ignore them, much like they did the country's finances while they were in power. Our Military, as with almost all of our Congress that has served in the Armed Forces are against torture – and that includes several prominent Republicans. They know that if we ever get into a conventional war, our use of torture will fall on the backs of those who may be captured and/or shot down during combat.

  • Harry Jones

    MG

    This is from the House of Rep, website:

    The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich.

    http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct

    I read that piece a few times and concluded that Obama is doing the wrong thing for the country but he is doing the populist thing. If Obama's main priority was doing what's best he would have followed Reagan's lead. I really think that he wants a European Socialist society. In Europe equality means bringing the rich down to the level of the middle class instead of giving the middle class the opportunity to move up to where the rich are. UK just raised their top tax bracket to 50%. Sweden is around 70%. Why work your butt off to pay for government?

  • Harry Jones

    MG

    This is from the House of Rep, website:

    The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich.

    http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct

    I read that piece a few times and concluded that Obama is doing the wrong thing for the country but he is doing the populist thing. If Obama's main priority was doing what's best he would have followed Reagan's lead. I really think that he wants a European Socialist society. In Europe equality means bringing the rich down to the level of the middle class instead of giving the middle class the opportunity to move up to where the rich are. UK just raised their top tax bracket to 50%. Sweden is around 70%. Why work your butt off to pay for government?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    No argument there – the government does not know what to do with…I’d add they do know how to spend far more then it takes in…that’s for sure…__I’d be interested in seeing the reports you have on the revenue history during the Reagan years. __According to a US Treasury Dept report the various Reagan’s tax bills combined had a mixed impact on revenue with the overall impact being negative…recapped here …I have found a variety of pro and con reports accessible here too: __http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics__http://

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      From the research I’ve been able to do so far defining the impact taxes cuts have on the economy is determined how they have been applied.
      http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/311088
      Regardless of which party is deficit spending, there is an abundance of academic studies that indicate government deficit spending does not have a positive impact on the economy:
      http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/upload/bg
      Every dollar the Fed injects into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy itself. No new spending power is created. Money just trades hands from one group to another. If the government borrows from domestic investors those investors have less to invest or spend in the domestic economy. If they borrow from foreigners, the balance of payments is adjusted by equally reducing net exports leaving GDP unchanged. The alternative is the Fed could print all the money it needs. But that creates inflation (e.g. Zimbabwe) and debases the value of the dollar.
      http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/upload/bg

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

    No argument there – the government does not know what to do with…I’d add they do know how to spend far more then it takes in…that’s for sure…__I’d be interested in seeing the reports you have on the revenue history during the Reagan years. __According to a US Treasury Dept report the various Reagan’s tax bills combined had a mixed impact on revenue with the overall impact being negative…recapped here …I have found a variety of pro and con reports accessible here too: __http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics__http://

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      From the research I’ve been able to do so far defining the impact taxes cuts have on the economy is determined how they have been applied.
      http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/311088
      Regardless of which party is deficit spending, there is an abundance of academic studies that indicate government deficit spending does not have a positive impact on the economy:
      http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/upload/bg
      Every dollar the Fed injects into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy itself. No new spending power is created. Money just trades hands from one group to another. If the government borrows from domestic investors those investors have less to invest or spend in the domestic economy. If they borrow from foreigners, the balance of payments is adjusted by equally reducing net exports leaving GDP unchanged. The alternative is the Fed could print all the money it needs. But that creates inflation (e.g. Zimbabwe) and debases the value of the dollar.
      http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/upload/bg

  • Harry Jones

    "Someday the debt will have to be paid or defaulted on."

    Amen!!

    Reagan's economic policies increased government revenue by a lot. I don't have the numbers. We had a 25 year economic expansion because of it. The problem is once the government gets the money they don't know what to do with it.

    You mention Reagan and Bush as being spenders. I should think we'd hear some outrage about what Obama is doing.

    The self reliance I refer to is managing my own life in a way that doesn't make me dependent of my fellow taxpayers. In my mind that would be selfish and treasonous. The problem that Conservatives have is that a lot of us are being punished by the current administration for acting in a fiscally responsible manner, unlike our leaders.

  • Harry Jones

    "Someday the debt will have to be paid or defaulted on."

    Amen!!

    Reagan's economic policies increased government revenue by a lot. I don't have the numbers. We had a 25 year economic expansion because of it. The problem is once the government gets the money they don't know what to do with it.

    You mention Reagan and Bush as being spenders. I should think we'd hear some outrage about what Obama is doing.

    The self reliance I refer to is managing my own life in a way that doesn't make me dependent of my fellow taxpayers. In my mind that would be selfish and treasonous. The problem that Conservatives have is that a lot of us are being punished by the current administration for acting in a fiscally responsible manner, unlike our leaders.

  • Harry Jones

    Bill

    The god of profit not only pays for Donald Trump's yachts it pays for Social Security . Without the god of profit we're all doomed. Can you imagine what life would be like without the pharmaceutical industry making profits? Those profits pay for the stuff that's keeps a lot of people alive.

    Kevin

    I vote for my best interests, that's why I vote Republican. Low taxes and self reliance has been good to me. Try it, you'll like it.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      The two biggest deficit spending presidents in recent history have been Reagan and GWBush. Borrowing to fund deficit spending is simply future taxes. Either way, we pay for it now, or pay for it later. Someday the debt will have to be paid or defaulted on. Since we owe foreigners, "they will demand returns that will take an increasing proportion of future tax revenues.” http://sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/03_2009.pd
      http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp221/ (see page 9 Figure A)
      Wall Street is proving to be very self-reliant…is this the sort of self reliance you are referring to?

  • Harry Jones

    Bill

    The god of profit not only pays for Donald Trump's yachts it pays for Social Security . Without the god of profit we're all doomed. Can you imagine what life would be like without the pharmaceutical industry making profits? Those profits pay for the stuff that's keeps a lot of people alive.

    Kevin

    I vote for my best interests, that's why I vote Republican. Low taxes and self reliance has been good to me. Try it, you'll like it.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      The two biggest deficit spending presidents in recent history have been Reagan and GWBush. Borrowing to fund deficit spending is simply future taxes. Either way, we pay for it now, or pay for it later. Someday the debt will have to be paid or defaulted on. Since we owe foreigners, "they will demand returns that will take an increasing proportion of future tax revenues.” http://sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/03_2009.pd
      http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp221/ (see page 9 Figure A)
      Wall Street is proving to be very self-reliant…is this the sort of self reliance you are referring to?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    If that was the case, Bush and Cheney would have been impeached long ago…

    I find it particularly sad that of the shovel-ready jobs Obama supported in his recent stimulus Bill, 22,000 "Green Jobs" were outsourced to India. As long as we operate that the God of Profit is what motivates our country we can look to more unemployment and an economy that will struggle for years before it ever stages a comeback.

    William Cormier

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    If that was the case, Bush and Cheney would have been impeached long ago…

    I find it particularly sad that of the shovel-ready jobs Obama supported in his recent stimulus Bill, 22,000 "Green Jobs" were outsourced to India. As long as we operate that the God of Profit is what motivates our country we can look to more unemployment and an economy that will struggle for years before it ever stages a comeback.

    William Cormier

  • Harry Jones

    Bush wasn't impeached because he didn't commit any impeachable crimes. Clinton lied under oath and he wasn't thrown out, was he?

    I said water boarding saves lives. Water boarding is not torture. The Japanese and German version of water boarding was brutal and sadistic.

    The Bush Administration tried to have more oversight over the financial services industry. The Democrats would have nothing of the kind. Fannie Mae has been the Democrats piggy bank for decades.

    New York Times article from 2003:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-ag

    btw Obama has done more damage to this economy with his reckless current spending and his plans for future spending. All reasonable people know that we don't have the money . Can a president be impeached for cornering the market in red ink?

    • http://www.buzzflash.com Kevin Schmidt

      btw, who cares what you say? Everything in your posts have been completely discredited. You are nothing but a nonthinking propaganda parrot who votes against your own best interests.

      Now that we voted out the Weepublican traitors, its time to vote out the DINOs and Blue Dogs.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Neither party is in any position to point fingers of blame and play the high and mighty. Over the last 30 plus years each have contributed to the crisis we now face. The sooner we ALL get that the better. Neither party offers any real solutions. Corporate lobbying and funding stalks the power trail from one side of the aisle to the other. Pulled from the NY Times article Harry provided, this says all we need to know on how messed up things are and we hear this all the time: ''The regulator has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,'' said Rep Baker. We cannot rely on anything any of these yahoos say:
      ''These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Rep B Frank (statement made in 2003).

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

        And more "expert" statements:
        July 21, 2008 Paulson: "Our banking system is a safe and a sound one."
        Sept 16, 2008 Paulson: The American people can remain confident in the "soundness and resilience in the American financial system."
        Sept 17, 2008 Paulson: "Don't Worry, the Banking System Is Sound"
        By Sept 22 as the Bush $700 billion bailout is pending before Congress Paulson warns: “We’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”
        http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/0
        In 2007 Bush says: "The world economy is strong and I happen to believe one of the main reasons why is because we remain strong." http://www.cnbc.com/id/19994900/
        And again in 2008:
        http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSW

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Harry:
      "I said water boarding saves lives. Water boarding is not torture. The Japanese and German version of water boarding was brutal and sadistic."
      What facts do you have to support your claim water boarding saves lives?
      Are you speaking from personal experience that it is not torture and how today's version compares to the Japanese and German version?

      • Harry Jones

        "What facts do you have to support your claim water boarding saves lives? "

        Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water boarded 183 times in 2003.

        "What this technique uncovered, according to the memo, was “a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.” KSM later told Guantanamo authorities that al-Qaeda had targeted the 1,018-foot-tall Library Tower, the highest building west of the Mississippi. KSM’s confessions, the memo says, prompted “the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave.’”

        “Information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali,” the memo continues. Hambali supervised the October 2002 Bali nightclub bombings, which killed 202 vacationers, including seven Americans, and wounded 209 others. Had KSM remained unwaterboarded, Hambali likely would have orchestrated fresh atrocities.

        Rough questioning inspired KSM to identify Iyman Faris. He was convicted of plotting to sever the Brooklyn Bridge’s cables with torches so it would crumble into the East River. KSM also fingered 9/11 collaborator Yazid Sufaat. The 9/11 Commission Report states on page 151: “Sufaat would spend several months attempting to cultivate anthrax for al Qaeda in a laboratory he helped set up near the Kandahar airport.”

        http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWQyMDUzNjk4

        The Japanese version of "waterboarding" was to fill the prisoner's stomach with water until his stomach was distended — and then pound on his stomach, causing the prisoner to vomit.

        Or they would jam a stick into the prisoner's nose so he could breathe only through his mouth and then pour water in his mouth so he would choke to death.

        Or they would "waterboard" the prisoner with saltwater, which would kill him.

  • Harry Jones

    Bush wasn't impeached because he didn't commit any impeachable crimes. Clinton lied under oath and he wasn't thrown out, was he?

    I said water boarding saves lives. Water boarding is not torture. The Japanese and German version of water boarding was brutal and sadistic.

    The Bush Administration tried to have more oversight over the financial services industry. The Democrats would have nothing of the kind. Fannie Mae has been the Democrats piggy bank for decades.

    New York Times article from 2003:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-ag

    btw Obama has done more damage to this economy with his reckless current spending and his plans for future spending. All reasonable people know that we don't have the money . Can a president be impeached for cornering the market in red ink?

    • http://www.buzzflash.com/ Kevin Schmidt

      btw, who cares what you say? Everything in your posts have been completely discredited. You are nothing but a nonthinking propaganda parrot who votes against your own best interests.

      Now that we voted out the Weepublican traitors, its time to vote out the DINOs and Blue Dogs.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Neither party is in any position to point fingers of blame and play the high and mighty. Over the last 30 plus years each have contributed to the crisis we now face. The sooner we ALL get that the better. Neither party offers any real solutions. Corporate lobbying and funding stalks the power trail from one side of the aisle to the other. Pulled from the NY Times article Harry provided, this says all we need to know on how messed up things are and we hear this all the time: ''The regulator has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,'' said Rep Baker. We cannot rely on anything any of these yahoos say:
      ''These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Rep B Frank (statement made in 2003).

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

        And more "expert" statements:
        July 21, 2008 Paulson: "Our banking system is a safe and a sound one."
        Sept 16, 2008 Paulson: The American people can remain confident in the "soundness and resilience in the American financial system."
        Sept 17, 2008 Paulson: "Don't Worry, the Banking System Is Sound"
        By Sept 22 as the Bush $700 billion bailout is pending before Congress Paulson warns: “We’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”
        http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/0
        In 2007 Bush says: "The world economy is strong and I happen to believe one of the main reasons why is because we remain strong." http://www.cnbc.com/id/19994900/
        And again in 2008:
        http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSW

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Harry:
      "I said water boarding saves lives. Water boarding is not torture. The Japanese and German version of water boarding was brutal and sadistic."
      What facts do you have to support your claim water boarding saves lives?
      Are you speaking from personal experience that it is not torture and how today's version compares to the Japanese and German version?

      • Harry Jones

        "What facts do you have to support your claim water boarding saves lives? "

        Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water boarded 183 times in 2003.

        "What this technique uncovered, according to the memo, was “a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.” KSM later told Guantanamo authorities that al-Qaeda had targeted the 1,018-foot-tall Library Tower, the highest building west of the Mississippi. KSM’s confessions, the memo says, prompted “the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave.’”

        “Information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali,” the memo continues. Hambali supervised the October 2002 Bali nightclub bombings, which killed 202 vacationers, including seven Americans, and wounded 209 others. Had KSM remained unwaterboarded, Hambali likely would have orchestrated fresh atrocities.

        Rough questioning inspired KSM to identify Iyman Faris. He was convicted of plotting to sever the Brooklyn Bridge’s cables with torches so it would crumble into the East River. KSM also fingered 9/11 collaborator Yazid Sufaat. The 9/11 Commission Report states on page 151: “Sufaat would spend several months attempting to cultivate anthrax for al Qaeda in a laboratory he helped set up near the Kandahar airport.”

        http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWQyMDUzNjk4

        The Japanese version of "waterboarding" was to fill the prisoner's stomach with water until his stomach was distended — and then pound on his stomach, causing the prisoner to vomit.

        Or they would jam a stick into the prisoner's nose so he could breathe only through his mouth and then pour water in his mouth so he would choke to death.

        Or they would "waterboard" the prisoner with saltwater, which would kill him.

  • Oekoman

    Pundits talk as if Wall Street is the economy or at least a solid reflection of the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wall Street is but a subset of the overall economy. However, in a valueless economy, there is no radar to tell us when it is healthy or unhealthy. Since the great engine of the economy is the consumer and the flip side of each consumer is a worker or salaried employee, the real value system needed to establish a system of measurement of economic health is one based on human value. Without this, as we see, claims can be made that the economy is recovering in spite of increasing unemployment. However, in reality, as long as unemployment is climbing, the economy is not healthy. The language has been perverted by the lack of values or any measuring system….just like with all the other language perversion going on in our society. Thanks for the great article!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Excellent observations Oekoman…thanks!

  • Oekoman

    Pundits talk as if Wall Street is the economy or at least a solid reflection of the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wall Street is but a subset of the overall economy. However, in a valueless economy, there is no radar to tell us when it is healthy or unhealthy. Since the great engine of the economy is the consumer and the flip side of each consumer is a worker or salaried employee, the real value system needed to establish a system of measurement of economic health is one based on human value. Without this, as we see, claims can be made that the economy is recovering in spite of increasing unemployment. However, in reality, as long as unemployment is climbing, the economy is not healthy. The language has been perverted by the lack of values or any measuring system….just like with all the other language perversion going on in our society. Thanks for the great article!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Excellent observations Oekoman…thanks!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Since you mentioned torture, this article appeared on the N.Y. Times today, and to ignore its implications is to ignore reality:


    Cheney, Master of Pain

    By MAUREEN DOWD
    Published: May 16, 2009

    Philip Zelikow, who was State Department counselor for Condi Rice and executive director of the 9/11 Commission, testified last week before Congress that torture was “a collective failure and it was a mistake,” perhaps “a disastrous one.”

    After 9/11, he recalled, “the tough, gritty world of ‘the field’ worked its way into the consciousness of the nation’s leaders,” adding that the cultural “divide between the world of secretive, bearded operators in the field coming from their 3 a.m. meetings at safe houses, and the world of Washington policy makers in their wood-paneled suites” led the policy makers to become too deferential to C.I.A. operatives, and miss the fact that even the operatives disagreed among themselves about torture.

    Ali Soufan, the ex-F.B.I. agent who flatly calls torture “ineffective,” helped get valuable information from Abu Zubaydah, an important Al Qaeda prisoner, simply by outwitting him. Torture, he told Congress, is designed to force the subject to submit “through humiliation and cruelty” and “see the interrogator as the master who controls his pain.”

    In The Washington Note, a political and foreign policy blog, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff at State, wrote that the “harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002 … was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and Al Qaeda.” MUCH MORE

    No, torture didn't save lives, but was begun in an attempt to justify a war that had already failed the smell test.

    William Cormier

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Since you mentioned torture, this article appeared on the N.Y. Times today, and to ignore its implications is to ignore reality:


    Cheney, Master of Pain

    By MAUREEN DOWD
    Published: May 16, 2009

    Philip Zelikow, who was State Department counselor for Condi Rice and executive director of the 9/11 Commission, testified last week before Congress that torture was “a collective failure and it was a mistake,” perhaps “a disastrous one.”

    After 9/11, he recalled, “the tough, gritty world of ‘the field’ worked its way into the consciousness of the nation’s leaders,” adding that the cultural “divide between the world of secretive, bearded operators in the field coming from their 3 a.m. meetings at safe houses, and the world of Washington policy makers in their wood-paneled suites” led the policy makers to become too deferential to C.I.A. operatives, and miss the fact that even the operatives disagreed among themselves about torture.

    Ali Soufan, the ex-F.B.I. agent who flatly calls torture “ineffective,” helped get valuable information from Abu Zubaydah, an important Al Qaeda prisoner, simply by outwitting him. Torture, he told Congress, is designed to force the subject to submit “through humiliation and cruelty” and “see the interrogator as the master who controls his pain.”

    In The Washington Note, a political and foreign policy blog, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff at State, wrote that the “harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002 … was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and Al Qaeda.” MUCH MORE

    No, torture didn't save lives, but was begun in an attempt to justify a war that had already failed the smell test.

    William Cormier

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Yes, I enlisted in the Army October the 10th, 1968. And I do understand that real conservatives are furious at Bush/Cheney; there's no question that I could have worded my statement differently – which I will do now:

    "Where were the Conservatives in the GOP that allowed Bush and Cheney to rape and pillage our country? The GOP had a lock on Congress, yet in spite of their power and ability to conduct proper oversight of the Bush administration – the leadership of the GOP failed America and refused to honor their oaths of office – thus enabling the destruction of our economy.

    This has never been an issue between "commoner's" – you and I as an example, but for those who held the mantle of power and still slither through the halls of Congress as they attempt to milk the lobbyists for everything they can. AIPAC, which is synonymous with "Zionism" (IMO) still guides much of our foreign policy – and unfortunately, that power transcends party lines, as was demonstrated by Jane Harmon. I am not anti-semantic but do admit that I despise AIPAC and all other forms of legalized bribery that cause our Congress to vote on issues that are detrimental to the American people.

    The Democrats still have to live with Nancy Pelosi whose legacy is one of "taking impeachment off the table" and essentially caving into most of what President Bush wanted; the treason and deception run deep and it is entrenched on both sides of the isle.

    Your claims that torture did save lives has been repudiated by the FBI – who claim they were having much more success using tried and proven methods of interrogation; The United States is a signatory to the Geneva Convention which labels "torture" as a "war crime." The United States and its allies executed Japanese and Germans for committing War Crimes. Adhering to our own beliefs may often be hard as we witness an enemy that resemble barbarians rather than people with any tangible moral compass – and our use of torture has helped the Taliban and Al Qaeda in their recruitment efforts, which is why I am against releasing any further photos of abuse.

    Ron Paul is a Republican Conservative, yet he has never voted against our constitution. How is it possible that Congress only has one long-time Senator who has always voted for our Constitution? Eliminate "K Street" and their legalized bribery and we might see a reemergence of a Congress that votes the will of the people rather than those who have the most money.

    William Cormier

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Bill good write up…thanks!
      The jump in foreclosures in April is partially a result of financial firms having placed a moratorium on processing further foreclosures for the first quarter 2009…which expired at the end of March

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    Yes, I enlisted in the Army October the 10th, 1968. And I do understand that real conservatives are furious at Bush/Cheney; there's no question that I could have worded my statement differently – which I will do now:

    "Where were the Conservatives in the GOP that allowed Bush and Cheney to rape and pillage our country? The GOP had a lock on Congress, yet in spite of their power and ability to conduct proper oversight of the Bush administration – the leadership of the GOP failed America and refused to honor their oaths of office – thus enabling the destruction of our economy.

    This has never been an issue between "commoner's" – you and I as an example, but for those who held the mantle of power and still slither through the halls of Congress as they attempt to milk the lobbyists for everything they can. AIPAC, which is synonymous with "Zionism" (IMO) still guides much of our foreign policy – and unfortunately, that power transcends party lines, as was demonstrated by Jane Harmon. I am not anti-semantic but do admit that I despise AIPAC and all other forms of legalized bribery that cause our Congress to vote on issues that are detrimental to the American people.

    The Democrats still have to live with Nancy Pelosi whose legacy is one of "taking impeachment off the table" and essentially caving into most of what President Bush wanted; the treason and deception run deep and it is entrenched on both sides of the isle.

    Your claims that torture did save lives has been repudiated by the FBI – who claim they were having much more success using tried and proven methods of interrogation; The United States is a signatory to the Geneva Convention which labels "torture" as a "war crime." The United States and its allies executed Japanese and Germans for committing War Crimes. Adhering to our own beliefs may often be hard as we witness an enemy that resemble barbarians rather than people with any tangible moral compass – and our use of torture has helped the Taliban and Al Qaeda in their recruitment efforts, which is why I am against releasing any further photos of abuse.

    Ron Paul is a Republican Conservative, yet he has never voted against our constitution. How is it possible that Congress only has one long-time Senator who has always voted for our Constitution? Eliminate "K Street" and their legalized bribery and we might see a reemergence of a Congress that votes the will of the people rather than those who have the most money.

    William Cormier

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/mgurney mgurney

      Bill good write up…thanks!
      The jump in foreclosures in April is partially a result of financial firms having placed a moratorium on processing further foreclosures for the first quarter 2009…which expired at the end of March

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    I appreciate your candor, however, for the past eight years, starting on nine with President Obama – Conservatism has equated to robbing the people blind. It's called taxation without representation, and our faces still feel scorched when the Banks received Taxpayer money to bail their butts out of bad business deals, and then immediately quit lending to America's small businesses and raised the rates on several different products in an attempt to take our money through government bailouts and then charge more to the bulk of their consumer base.

    I've read comments throughout the Internet where people state they feel cheated, once by the government and then again by the banks themselves, who only exist because of our tax money – and then have the nerve to grub every nickel they can by raising fees that were already absurd. Please, the phrase "conservative" is now associated with massive fraud and the Bush administration, and "compassionate conservatism" translates into a broad smile as the blade slides blithely between your ribs directly into the heart.

    I do not agree with Bush's spending of the TARP Funds nor do I approve of Obama using taxpayer money to bailout banks, financial institutions, and whoever else has the most in lobbying dollars. As a nation, we can never come close to what we had unless we restore our manufacturing base and the wealth of decent jobs it creates and sustains. The United States cannot exist as a "service based economy." and if we don't recoup our manufacturing base, the loss of jobs will worsen and America's Middle-Class will all but disappear..

    Speaking of disappearing, where were "conservatives" the past eight years as we endured the Bush administration??? Obama didn't bring financial ruin to our country, and neither did I – but I did predict on March 27th, 2005, the destruction of our economy in an article I had written on Wal-Mart and corporate America foolishly building up a nation that has stolen more American secrets (Business and Military.) than any country on earth.

    I'm only a layman, but the evidence was there for all to see. All it took was reading a lot of foreign news, who at times carry very important stories that our own media ignores. Almost all of America's most trusted corporations have offshore tax havens and they haven't paid their fair percentage of taxes in decades, so yes, I guess you can say with utter confidence that "Conservatives don't sit around waiting for the government to intervene. We do what we have to do to get what we need and want."

    Interesting statement, especially knowing that Dick Cheney ran an international assassination ring; Please, explain to us what real "conservatism" means. Please don't fail to mention that, for the last eight years, conservatives have stepped aside of your own principles to support Bush and Cheney in a doctrine of imperialism that has bankrupted our nation and given us a global black-eye.

    With prosperity comes a great deal of responsibility, so if the "keepers of the gate" as I describe the Bush administration, lied, deceived, and started a war based on lies, bankrupted our nation, over four thousand brave American's are dead and in excess of one million Iraqi civilians – and most of the world look upon the United States with suspicion and fear.

    I'm hoping that Barack Obama is the one that will lead us back to our constitutional values; politics is a dirty game, and Barack Obama cut his teeth on the vicious politics that are almost mythical in Chicago – and now he's President of the United States. Give him some time, let the opposition let down their guard while Obama entrenches himself in a mantle of power and step aside as the President of the United States, his power assured, will tackle the issues that "we the people" elected him to office to correct.

    William Cormier

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/wjcormier wjcormier

    I appreciate your candor, however, for the past eight years, starting on nine with President Obama – Conservatism has equated to robbing the people blind. It's called taxation without representation, and our faces still feel scorched when the Banks received Taxpayer money to bail their butts out of bad business deals, and then immediately quit lending to America's small businesses and raised the rates on several different products in an attempt to take our money through government bailouts and then charge more to the bulk of their consumer base.

    I've read comments throughout the Internet where people state they feel cheated, once by the government and then again by the banks themselves, who only exist because of our tax money – and then have the nerve to grub every nickel they can by raising fees that were already absurd. Please, the phrase "conservative" is now associated with massive fraud and the Bush administration, and "compassionate conservatism" translates into a broad smile as the blade slides blithely between your ribs directly into the heart.

    I do not agree with Bush's spending of the TARP Funds nor do I approve of Obama using taxpayer money to bailout banks, financial institutions, and whoever else has the most in lobbying dollars. As a nation, we can never come close to what we had unless we restore our manufacturing base and the wealth of decent jobs it creates and sustains. The United States cannot exist as a "service based economy." and if we don't recoup our manufacturing base, the loss of jobs will worsen and America's Middle-Class will all but disappear..

    Speaking of disappearing, where were "conservatives" the past eight years as we endured the Bush administration??? Obama didn't bring financial ruin to our country, and neither did I – but I did predict on March 27th, 2005, the destruction of our economy in an article I had written on Wal-Mart and corporate America foolishly building up a nation that has stolen more American secrets (Business and Military.) than any country on earth.

    I'm only a layman, but the evidence was there for all to see. All it took was reading a lot of foreign news, who at times carry very important stories that our own media ignores. Almost all of America's most trusted corporations have offshore tax havens and they haven't paid their fair percentage of taxes in decades, so yes, I guess you can say with utter confidence that "Conservatives don't sit around waiting for the government to intervene. We do what we have to do to get what we need and want."

    Interesting statement, especially knowing that Dick Cheney ran an international assassination ring; Please, explain to us what real "conservatism" means. Please don't fail to mention that, for the last eight years, conservatives have stepped aside of your own principles to support Bush and Cheney in a doctrine of imperialism that has bankrupted our nation and given us a global black-eye.

    With prosperity comes a great deal of responsibility, so if the "keepers of the gate" as I describe the Bush administration, lied, deceived, and started a war based on lies, bankrupted our nation, over four thousand brave American's are dead and in excess of one million Iraqi civilians – and most of the world look upon the United States with suspicion and fear.

    I'm hoping that Barack Obama is the one that will lead us back to our constitutional values; politics is a dirty game, and Barack Obama cut his teeth on the vicious politics that are almost mythical in Chicago – and now he's President of the United States. Give him some time, let the opposition let down their guard while Obama entrenches himself in a mantle of power and step aside as the President of the United States, his power assured, will tackle the issues that "we the people" elected him to office to correct.

    William Cormier

  • Harry Jones

    The financial problems we have now were caused by enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act. The CRA gave the government the power to force lenders to give mortgage money to people that could not pay it back..

    Conservatives are a lot more pissed off about Bush than liberals are. He spent like a Democrat. Conservatism is self reliance with a minimum of government interference.

    "Interesting statement, especially knowing that Dick Cheney ran an international assassination ring"

    Do you think that is something new? You've never been in the military have you?

    btw Bush's policies kept us safe for 7 years. Water boarding saved lives. Most college fraternity initiations cause more dammage than water boarding.

    Remember Obama only got 52.7% of the vote, hardly a mandate.

    • http://www.buzzflash.com Kevin Schmidt

      btw, Bush's policies DID NOT keep us safe for 7 years. Thousands of Americans died on 9/11 and in Dubya/dick's war OF terror and imperialism. Why would any of the Muslim freedom fighters want to go through the time and trouble to come here when we had hundreds of thousands of troops right in their own backyard?

      Water boarding has save ZERO lives! The FBI, ARMY, Air Force, and Marines all say torture does not work. Why don't you support the troops? Why do you want to put them in harms way?

      Plus, most college fraternities don't torture to death over 100 people. Nor do they sodomize young boys in front of their parents.

      Torture is illegal. For you to support it makes you a criminal just as much as Dubya/dick who authorized it.

      The Weepublican Dodo Party of Extinction got voted completely out of power and even lost the ability to filibuster in the Senate. That is indeed a very clear mandate!

  • Harry Jones

    The financial problems we have now were caused by enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act. The CRA gave the government the power to force lenders to give mortgage money to people that could not pay it back..

    Conservatives are a lot more pissed off about Bush than liberals are. He spent like a Democrat. Conservatism is self reliance with a minimum of government interference.

    "Interesting statement, especially knowing that Dick Cheney ran an international assassination ring"

    Do you think that is something new? You've never been in the military have you?

    btw Bush's policies kept us safe for 7 years. Water boarding saved lives. Most college fraternity initiations cause more dammage than water boarding.

    Remember Obama only got 52.7% of the vote, hardly a mandate.

    • http://www.buzzflash.com/ Kevin Schmidt

      btw, Bush's policies DID NOT keep us safe for 7 years. Thousands of Americans died on 9/11 and in Dubya/dick's war OF terror and imperialism. Why would any of the Muslim freedom fighters want to go through the time and trouble to come here when we had hundreds of thousands of troops right in their own backyard?

      Water boarding has save ZERO lives! The FBI, ARMY, Air Force, and Marines all say torture does not work. Why don't you support the troops? Why do you want to put them in harms way?

      Plus, most college fraternities don't torture to death over 100 people. Nor do they sodomize young boys in front of their parents.

      Torture is illegal. For you to support it makes you a criminal just as much as Dubya/dick who authorized it.

      The Weepublican Dodo Party of Extinction got voted completely out of power and even lost the ability to filibuster in the Senate. That is indeed a very clear mandate!

  • Steve May

    Harry Jones . . .

    You're right, "Government is the problem" . . . George Bush's government that is!

    You disgusting Republican trolls are either too stupid or too stubborn (probably both) to realize that the one and only reason the United States is in such terrible shape is because of the criminal and traitor who was the last Republican President (hopefully THE last): one of your own, Bush. You should all be ashamed to admit you are Republicans and that's why your party's membership is in a well-deserved death spiral.

  • Steve May

    Harry Jones . . .

    You're right, "Government is the problem" . . . George Bush's government that is!

    You disgusting Republican trolls are either too stupid or too stubborn (probably both) to realize that the one and only reason the United States is in such terrible shape is because of the criminal and traitor who was the last Republican President (hopefully THE last): one of your own, Bush. You should all be ashamed to admit you are Republicans and that's why your party's membership is in a well-deserved death spiral.

  • Harry Jones

    "If we can get President Obama to offer some real help to those that need it most – and that doesn’t include banks, our prospects for a real financial recovery may be better than ever."

    lol

    Maybe he can print some money it send to those you think need it. How about borrow some more.

    Government is the problem not the solution. We Conservatives know that. Conservatives don't sit around waiting for the government to intervene. We do what we have to do to get what we need and want.

    • http://www.buzzflash.com Kevin Schmidt

      You mean the Neocon-Fascist government that stole numerous elections, started a war OF terror to steal oil and US tax dollars, committed treason by outing Valerie Plame, committed malfeasance by throwing the U.S. into another Repubican caused Great Depression was the problem.

      They got voted out of office and now the Weepublican Dodo Party of Extinction is completely irrelevant.

      Now if we can only vote out the Blue Dogs and DINOs too, then the government won't be the problem any more.

      As far as Conservatives who "don't around and waiting for the government to intervene", that is far from the truth.

      The fact is, red Conservative states are the lazy welfare states who are supported by the hard working blue Liberal states.

  • Harry Jones

    "If we can get President Obama to offer some real help to those that need it most – and that doesn’t include banks, our prospects for a real financial recovery may be better than ever."

    lol

    Maybe he can print some money it send to those you think need it. How about borrow some more.

    Government is the problem not the solution. We Conservatives know that. Conservatives don't sit around waiting for the government to intervene. We do what we have to do to get what we need and want.

    • http://www.buzzflash.com/ Kevin Schmidt

      You mean the Neocon-Fascist government that stole numerous elections, started a war OF terror to steal oil and US tax dollars, committed treason by outing Valerie Plame, committed malfeasance by throwing the U.S. into another Repubican caused Great Depression was the problem.

      They got voted out of office and now the Weepublican Dodo Party of Extinction is completely irrelevant.

      Now if we can only vote out the Blue Dogs and DINOs too, then the government won't be the problem any more.

      As far as Conservatives who "don't around and waiting for the government to intervene", that is far from the truth.

      The fact is, red Conservative states are the lazy welfare states who are supported by the hard working blue Liberal states.

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